Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

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guzzis3
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Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 3rd, '18, 18:20

Hi all,

I have decided to bite the bullet and build a boat. More on that later, but while I prepare for the big fiberglass push I'm shopping for bits.

I realise this might be a bit of flame bait but hopefully cool heads will prevail. I'd really appreciate your opinions on the various brands of hardware, travelers, blocks etc...

There are variations in price and in item specifics and I'm wondering what people's opinions are of value of different brands.

For example I really like the lewmar 4:1 traveler kit as it has cleat on car, but it comes with 1.5 meter track which is useless to me, I need at least 2m. Harken have a nice kit of car and track ends and you buy the track separately, but the cleats are on the ends which is slightly inconvenient.

Blocks are just poisonously expensive. I need a 6:1 main sheet and probably 60 or 75mm blocks would be nice. Enough to make you feint...the prices...

Anyway any thoughts appreciated. Cheap sources also...

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Castle 610 » Jan 3rd, '18, 18:51

Depends on the boat
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Gezza
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Gezza » Jan 3rd, '18, 19:38

That must be a big boat if you are looking into the 60-75 mm blocks. I use 55 mm block for my back stay and running back stays for a Sonata 8, so that be high load. Check out wichard from Arnold’s boat shop those are the highest load rated for size and price then Ronstan (looks smarter) and I found harken to be least load rated for size and price. As for winches I found harken best value for money, spent a bit extra and get self tailing ones you will be thankful you did. Compare prices for travellers, often it is as expensive or even cheaper to just buy the bits seperate. My cleats are on the car itself and I made my own bracket where they fit on as I could not find anything that I liked.
But best thing you could do is not run into buying hardware, as you are building your boat it won’t be finished tomorrow so sit back and snap up offers when they come along. Also as those are the last bits you need even consider that for any reason you might run into problems and do not get to finish your project, it would be a wast to have all that expensive gear laying around.
Anyway enjoy your project and I hope it works out for you I wish I had the time to something like that.
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impulse
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by impulse » Jan 3rd, '18, 19:47

They are all much of a muchness. Really what suits your needs tends to override the cost aspect.
Unfortunately one of the few suppliers who may be able to supply everything (Maoripro sailing in the US) isn't necessarily the cheapest in everything. I use a combination of maoripro, deckside, whitworths, whitsunday discount marine and arnolds.
BTW, isn't it about time Bias boating was removed from internet search results !!
I thought you could get longer track for the Lewmar traveller, not in the kit form though, so maybe you need to be prepared to have some left overs.
What are you planning on building ?
Cheers Robin.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by pdandy » Jan 3rd, '18, 20:05

Ditto - wait until the gear is on sale. Watch the ebay user ? - https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/ronstan-int ... 7675.l2562 from time to time he dumps old stock ronstan gear at reasonable prices. Plus put a " wanted" add up in our for sale section - you might get lucky and find some left over bcf sale stuff, or even ric might have some of his old bias boating post auction gear?

Ps Anderson winches are my contribution - awesome gear, and every so often they come up on special from ronstan ( eg advertised here recently with a winch handle thrown in)
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garymalmgren
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by garymalmgren » Jan 3rd, '18, 20:19

Beware of gear that you think is sexy.
Think mag wheels on a car. They make zero difference to performance.

If it is strong, then it is good.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by garymalmgren » Jan 3rd, '18, 20:21

Maoripro or Mauipro?

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by INMA » Jan 3rd, '18, 20:38

Without knowing what yacht is planned its hard to consider the advice needed.

For example, light weight and high performance tends to lead to use of carbon fibre and more modern hardware.

Do you want to mold chain plates and other structures. Compared with plywood that is going to need very basic technology.

By the time the hull is finished, there will be a lot of new technology in fittings from one or more brands.
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by impulse » Jan 3rd, '18, 21:14

garymalmgren wrote:Maoripro or Mauipro?
I never get it right. :wink:
https://www.mauriprosailing.com/
Cheers Robin.

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zebedee
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 3rd, '18, 21:31

I built a Mini Moke up from a bare shell back in 1990; it took me about 12 months to get the shell stripped and painted, then about two weeks to actually assemble it.

What's a Moke got to do with a boat?

I'd owned a Morris Minor and managed a girlfriend's Mini for some years so I was familiar with the many variations of most Mini mechanical components between 1959 and 1982, and I spent the 12 months chasing my preferred variants of each part at the best prices, taking my time and seizing opportunities as they came past. I saved a fortune and built the Moke *I* wanted. Hunting down the best deals on parts also helped keep me motivated during the long slog preparing the bodyshell.

You ideally want to know what you need, and what alternatives are acceptable, so you can snaffle them when the right deal comes past, and have most of it, if not everything, ready to go when you reach the fitting out stage, without spending a fortune at full retail price long before you actually need stuff.

On the subject of travellers (my Minor was a Traveller!), stationary cleats on the ends are ergonomically diabolical; cleats on the car are much easier to use. If the brand you otherwise like doesn't have cleats on the car, consider fabricating a stainless plate to fit the car to carry cleats. If you've got CAD, you could even get a plate laser cut to suit. If you don't have CAD but can do a sketch, I can knock up a CAD file for you.

Harken traveller car with cleats:
Image

Ronstan traveller car without cleats:
Image

Morris Minor Traveller car without cleats:
Image
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by impulse » Jan 3rd, '18, 21:35

A lady friend of mine in the UK used to have a fernery growing in the timber trim of her traveller.
Cheers Robin.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by pdandy » Jan 3rd, '18, 21:46

Zeb, I think you are wrong with your ergonomics. Traveller cleats on the end of the track can be angled to allow an upward pull , which for most of us is more powerfull whilst seated than the backward / twisting pull of cleats on the traveller car.

For what it's worth, my nx has cleats on the car - but that's because it's easier to set up. If
I spend a day playing the traveller on my nx in heavy wind , I get shoulder AND back pain.
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garymalmgren
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by garymalmgren » Jan 3rd, '18, 22:19

Hi Robin
I always thought it was Maui as in the island in Hawaii.
Never noticed the "r". MAURIPRO
Well you live and learn.
They offer free delivery for orders over $300.
Is that only for the US or is it international?

gary

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 3rd, '18, 22:25

My Castle has cleats on the vertical faces from the cockpit seat to the coaming, making for a vertical pull behind your bum. Pulling from the car is surely similar to pulling the mainsheet from the bottom block, also on the car?

I removed the rope from mine recently and fitted a pair of plunger pin type stops; the racers will cringe but it works for cruising.
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Tezza
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Tezza » Jan 4th, '18, 00:03

zebedee wrote:
Morris Minor Traveller car without cleats:
Image
That’s not a traveller that’s a lowlight woody! Where’s the surfboard . I had a Studie Woody with a Midge Farrelly 8’10” board and thought I was king.
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zebedee
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 4th, '18, 20:51

Tezza wrote:That’s not a traveller that’s a lowlight woody! Where’s the surfboard . I had a Studie Woody with a Midge Farrelly 8’10” board and thought I was king.
"Woody" is a generic and mostly American term for shooting breaks with a timber framed rear end. "Traveller" was the BMC model name for Morris Oxford, Minor, and Mini station wagons with the timber frame, though the timber on the Mini Traveller was a purely cosmetic.
Minor Travellers were introduced after the end of production of low light Minors and after high light side valve Minors. All Minor Travellers should have the 803cc, 948cc or 1098cc A series motor. In fact only one of the fifteen or so Minor Travellers I've seen in Australia was an 803cc series II with a split flat pane windscreen, and this car clearly has a curved screen making it a Minor 1000 built after 1957.
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 5th, '18, 06:23

Thank you for the replies.

I know how to shop for bargains. The list of suggested suppliers is helpful. I knew of most of them but not all. It is precisely because I want to monitor specials that I am starting shopping now.

The boat is a 25' cat so ergonomics and loads may be different. I am only building hulls initially and putting minimal connecting structure on it to see how I feel before building a more complete/elaborate bridgedeck.

Over the years I've heard people claim that this brand or that is demonstrably better. Sounds like they are much of a muchness and I should just chase price. Perhaps I can reverse the question: Are there any brands you would avoid ?

Zebedee: Thank you for the offer but I have enterprise level cad at my disposal and can fabricate pretty much anything within reason. Spent much of my working life designing and building experimental equipment and running labs, then flying a desk as a design draftsman. Frankly when I look at the prices I'm half tempted to just make the blessed things but I'm too old and cranky to go down that path anymore.

The 60/75mm blocks aren't about load. The main sheet will be seeing about 600kg. I like a thick rope in my hands so I want a decent sheath capacity. The main sheet is probably the part of the boat, apart from the tiller, that we are most constantly in touch with so I'd like it to be nice. I've got an old hobie main sheet that will work but it's very old and well worn. It will get replaced at some point.

I may not run any winches, but yes andersons are said to be very good.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 5th, '18, 06:42

This is the traveler system I would prefer:

https://www.lewmar.com/node/14612?v=26085

I can buy the car and ends at a decent price and hopefully get the track locally.

I'm prepared to believe I'm doing something wrong but I can not seem to find a harken or ronstan equivalent car, 4:1 purchase double sheaves and cam on car in a mid range size ?

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madmission
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by madmission » Jan 5th, '18, 08:12

I run a fairly sophisticated traveller for a B20 and have placed importance on their function on all my boats , i am also regular mainsheet trimmer on a competitive sydney 32 racing weekly
While the VOR was in melbourne i was lucky enough to have a tour on board Mapfre by non other than Xabi Fernández its skipper.
He was generous with his time and fielded my many questions regarding rig tuning & trimming when i queried the traveller set up i was surprised by his response it went along the lines " we dont adjust it much at all mainly due to the effect of apparent wind angle " which i can relate to and also note that on the larger cats i sailed traveller was always the goto once mainsheet was ballpark.
On all those mains the purchase on the traveller used to adjust is surprisingly low.
so perhaps my observation is be thoughtful in your choice of such leveraged setup with all its friction and miles of cordage on what i envisage is a craft that will effect apparent wind angles noticeably ..Just a thought.
Last edited by madmission on Jan 5th, '18, 10:18, edited 1 time in total.

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impulse
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by impulse » Jan 5th, '18, 08:43

I assume you have been here.
Lewmar

Their catalogue lists type 1,2 & 3 NTR track up to 3m. It's the drilled plunger track which looks a similar profile but you'd need to check if the car off the kit is compatible. Download their catalogue for their full range.
I got one of those lewmar kits, it's nice but rope is extra. My rigger reckons he could do the parts for a selden track and traveller for a very similar price.
Maybe you should chuck a bit of work the way of a local rigger / builder and you may be able to take advantage of their prices. :wink:

PS. A mate has that Harken traveller that Zeb posted, the traveller rope to leeward automatically releases when you pull on the other side. Lovely bit of gear with a price that will bring tears to your eyes. :lol:
Cheers Robin.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Furstin » Jan 5th, '18, 08:48

+1 for Andersons.

Also look at low friction blocks where possible.

M.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by colect149 » Jan 5th, '18, 09:13

For a cruiser I like Zeb's idea of the plunger type stops, the Farr has the cleats on the vertical part of the coaming like his Castle. I think the reason is the assumption the crew will be hiking out, but for those of just cruising the location is just plain inconvenient.
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by pdandy » Jan 5th, '18, 09:57

colect149 wrote:For a cruiser I like Zeb's idea of the plunger type stops, the Farr has the cleats on the vertical part of the coaming like his Castle. I think the reason is the assumption the crew will be hiking out, but for those of just cruising the location is just plain inconvenient.
There's nothing stopping you running cleats at both the traveller ends AND the car, in fact I should probably do this on the nx- ie a continuous line with cleats on the traveller AND with cleats mounted on the vertical COCKPIT SEATS (hiking out is for ballast, not the mainsheet trimmer )

BTW- for anyone wanting 8/10 mm to hold but the cheap 6 mm blocks - consider running 8/10 mm double braid dynema with the sheath tapered/ removed for the parts that run through cheap 19 mm ronstan I beam gear?? (ie the running part of the traveller is 6 mm but you have 8/10 on the cockpit ends to grab hold of)
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 5th, '18, 10:04

guzzis3 wrote:Zebedee: Thank you for the offer but I have enterprise level cad at my disposal and can fabricate pretty much anything within reason. Spent much of my working life designing and building experimental equipment and running labs, then flying a desk as a design draftsman. Frankly when I look at the prices I'm half tempted to just make the blessed things but I'm too old and cranky to go down that path anymore.
Image

8-)
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by impulse » Jan 5th, '18, 10:13

Dr Pauly, sounds like a trick you developed in general practice. :wink:
Cheers Robin.

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