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PostPosted: May 17th, '18, 21:13 
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Hi guys, does anyone know of a ramp steep enough to launch a Red Jacket around Brisbane? From what I understand, they need quite a steep ramp and about 1.2m of water.

Was hoping to look at a Jim Young 6.0 but was gone by the time I got my act together. Such is life. The Red Jacket seems like it will fit the criteria at the moment except for the ease of launching...

Thanks guys and gals.


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 10:09 
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The other alternative is to have an extending drawbar so you can launch at most ramps without having to back the car underwater.

The Red Jacket only has a draft of 0.69m. I suspect you could launch in less than 1.2m

Cheers
Mojo


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 13:00 
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Only problem with the extension draw bar is where the stink boats have blasted all the sand away from the end of the ramp concrete apron creating a sharp drop off and the drop off occurs before you can get to the correct depth. When the trailer wheels drop over the edge the trailer may sit on the frame and can be hard to retrieve even with no boat on the trailer and even harder when loaded with a boat. Launching is also an issue as once the frame bottoms on the ramp it will not go any deeper. Mudguard damage may also result. Not all “ramps” suffer from this ie a beach and this is where an extension drawbar is nice.

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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 14:05 
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Cheers for the info, permanently extending the draw bar shouldn't be hard but an extending draw bar sounds interesting. Not sure exactly what you meant.

As for the depth to launch, depending on the design of the trailer it may be possible to more or less sit the keel on the axle (obviously not actually touching it, or maybe in a longitudinal cradle of some sort) but this would still be around 1m (guesstimating the height of my current trailer axles at approx 300mm).

Not sure how much the car plays into this but it will be towed by a 2016 triton 4x4 so I imagine there would be more than enough power to retrieve if it fell off the end, otherwise I could (and may for security) add some 'bumper bars' to the bottom of the leading edge of the wheel to act as slides if it fell off the end. From all problems comes a solution, right?

Anywho, hopefully someone knows of a steep ramp. I have read that the VMR ramp is quite steep so that may be an option.

Cheers.


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 14:54 
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Jaime wrote:
Cheers for the info, permanently extending the draw bar shouldn't be hard but an extending draw bar sounds interesting. Not sure exactly what you meant.


Extending drawbars can be done several ways. Although you can set up the primary drawbar as a telescopic system, it's probably best to use a second coupling on a separate drawbar, which is either:
A) hinged off the primary drawbar so it can be swung forward or folded back against the trailer frame
or
B) slides within a couple of brackets so it can be extended forward past the primary drawbar.

Alternatively, look into mounting a stub axle, hub and spare tyre to the drawbar near the winch post so the trailer can be uncoupled, rolled down the ramp, and retrieved by rope.

Quote:
As for the depth to launch, depending on the design of the trailer it may be possible to more or less sit the keel on the axle


Get rid of the axle. Use rubber based independent suspension units which don't have an axle across the trailer...

Quote:
Not sure how much the car plays into this but it will be towed by a 2016 triton 4x4 so I imagine there would be more than enough power to retrieve if it fell off the end,


Nope. Brute force won't work once the trailer is hooked over the edge of a concrete ramp.

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otherwise I could (and may for security) add some 'bumper bars' to the bottom of the leading edge of the wheel to act as slides if it fell off the end. From all problems comes a solution, right?


I've often thought that "wedges" attached to the trailer frame ahead of the suspension so that it will slide up over an obstruction would be the obvious solution (other than not going off the end of a ramp in the first place!), yet I've never seen them. It wouldn't be difficult to retrofit something suitable to most trailers.

I once watched a guy back a truly enormous tandem trailer for a commercial fishing boat down a concrete ramp (Patterson River for the Victorians). I watched him slowly step the back axle off the edge and thought he was dead clever to "feel" the end of the ramp like that. Except that he then equally gently backed the front axle over the edge. And no, even with copious destruction of tyres, his enormous truck wouldn't drag his trailer back up onto the concrete.

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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 15:04 
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Sent you a PM. Also the ramp at Lake Samsonvale is pretty steep, if you don't want to sail in the bay that is.


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 16:00 
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zebedee wrote:
Jaime wrote:
Cheers for the info, permanently extending the draw bar shouldn't be hard but an extending draw bar sounds interesting. Not sure exactly what you meant.


Extending drawbars can be done several ways. Although you can set up the primary drawbar as a telescopic system, it's probably best to use a second coupling on a separate drawbar, which is either:
A) hinged off the primary drawbar so it can be swung forward or folded back against the trailer frame
or
B) slides within a couple of brackets so it can be extended forward past the primary drawbar.

Alternatively, look into mounting a stub axle, hub and spare tyre to the drawbar near the winch post so the trailer can be uncoupled, rolled down the ramp, and retrieved by rope.

Quote:
As for the depth to launch, depending on the design of the trailer it may be possible to more or less sit the keel on the axle


Get rid of the axle. Use rubber based independent suspension units which don't have an axle across the trailer...

Quote:
Not sure how much the car plays into this but it will be towed by a 2016 triton 4x4 so I imagine there would be more than enough power to retrieve if it fell off the end,


Nope. Brute force won't work once the trailer is hooked over the edge of a concrete ramp.

Quote:
otherwise I could (and may for security) add some 'bumper bars' to the bottom of the leading edge of the wheel to act as slides if it fell off the end. From all problems comes a solution, right?


I've often thought that "wedges" attached to the trailer frame ahead of the suspension so that it will slide up over an obstruction would be the obvious solution (other than not going off the end of a ramp in the first place!), yet I've never seen them. It wouldn't be difficult to retrofit something suitable to most trailers.

I once watched a guy back a truly enormous tandem trailer for a commercial fishing boat down a concrete ramp (Patterson River for the Victorians). I watched him slowly step the back axle off the edge and thought he was dead clever to "feel" the end of the ramp like that. Except that he then equally gently backed the front axle over the edge. And no, even with copious destruction of tyres, his enormous truck wouldn't drag his trailer back up onto the concrete.


If this happens then there is a simple fix. Position boat over jammed trailer. Get several heavy bodies to stand on the bow of the boat - thus lowering it into the water - then lash the bow to the trailer. Remove bodies and the trailer will lift.

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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 16:09 
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This is a neat drawbar extension.


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 16:53 
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And a demonstration of using a spare wheel for a beach launch:


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 20:47 
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Remember that the axle will move up when you hit a bump, so you will need some clearance between the keel and axle.
As Zeb says, you can get a torsion suspension split axle that allows the keel to sit between the 2. Helps get the boat lower if required.

I've had a boat with a similar draft and launched from your average ramp without issue. Remember the rear of the boat will float before the rest of it will. You don't necessarily need the whole boat floating to get it on and off the trailer.

Cheers
Mojo


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PostPosted: May 18th, '18, 22:15 
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Thanks again for all the info guys. Muchly appreciated.

Funnily enough I found most of the info while doing some more searching (funnily enough, I think it was all previously said by the same members previously).

I'm aware of the need for space between axles and keels for bumps etc however I was unaware about the independent suspension. I do think however that you could end up with a trailer worth much more than the boat if you're not careful...

The extension and some wedges sound like the winning idea.

Thanks again.


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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 00:54 
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Jaime wrote:
I'm aware of the need for space between axles and keels for bumps etc however I was unaware about the independent suspension. I do think however that you could end up with a trailer worth much more than the boat if you're not careful...


Have a look at some Flying Fifteen trailers, either online or in the flesh (fibreglass?) if you can. There are lots of good ideas beneath Flying Fifteens!

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Image

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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 01:06 
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And an ebay search for you. Independent rubber suspension units seem to be very common in the UK; far less so here. The units themselves are compact enough that the cost of buying and importing may still be competitive if the local Trojan Duratorque aren't suitable.

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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 12:24 
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a quick search threw this up, seems scarily cheap though... https://shop.trailerparts.net.au/Produc ... s/I0103-RH

Though this may have all been in vain as the boat may be sold to someone else before I get a chance to even look at it! go figure...

worst case, I increased my knowledge and someone else may also find this info useful!

Cheers
Jaime


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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 18:57 
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A lot of boat trailers in NZ have a brand named Duratourque. I googled and found Swiftcotrailerparts.com.au popped up. As with springs, you need to get the load rating right. Don't ask how I know.
Peter

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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 19:51 
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They popped up on my radar too Peridot. Anyway, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. For now, I have to hope it is not taken, should know tomorrow with any luck. To be honest though, I'm not really that worried about dunking the whole rear end of the car to the point I start getting water in the tub, which should be another few m really, and more again if/when we lift it. It's why we got rust proofing (that is warrantied by a dealer for life... how silly of them!). The biggest problem would be getting the tow ball low enough to keep the trailer flat, an issue we have with the dinghy trailer and the box trailer. I need to invest in a height adjustable tow hitch I think...


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PostPosted: May 19th, '18, 20:02 
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Hi Jaime. Thinking about Tezza's problem reminded me about getting my bilge keeler on to a trailer, and I imagine you would have similar problems. You can't winch it, you have to float it, so it is actually better to have the trailer frame near level. I can't remember exactly how, but probably just with a rope and bathing togs. In later years we launched a 16ft tinnie off the beach. Kiwi trailers had a handle across the base of the winch post that took a barrow wheel. We didn't have spares in those days. It only needs to take whatever load is normally on the towball. It meant the trailer ran straight, a jockey wheel is hopeless. Just a sand-skid is not a good option, either. You can launch on a steep ramp, but retreiving could be interesting.
Peter

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