New build Scarab 16

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rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 10:42

If anyone is feeling left out just post your name here and I'll send you a PM as well ;)

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 13:02

Ply delivered. Some interesting ply stories were shared and one sheet was rejected (picked up by the ply guy before me) and swapped for a spare that was on the ute.

Not much left to acquire now.
This is on the grab later list
- Fittings these will be acquired as needed, anyone know of a cheap place to buy fittings?
- 70mm OD aluminium tube (once I can find 70mm OD tube) for the prodder
- 2 x Tramps.
- 16mm stainless rod (for the pins)
- 12mm stainless rod (for the pins)
- EDIT forgot Paint I think this is a topic in itself!

That means I had better get chopping and laminating!

Current plan is to get the 6mm ply sheets organised for joining in the morning and set aside the spare MDF for building the jig. For the joining I've been doing some research and I'm thinking epoxy fillet butt join with 100mm DB tape for both sides or epoxy butt join (both sides) with 100mm DB tape one side and a 200mm uni (fibers follow stem to stern, 100mm each side of join) on the inside once built. Thinking the uni because I can go from deck join to deck join inside the floats but could also go DB as well. I'll try a single sided taped butt join and see how that holds up first on some scrap tonite.


I have 4 sheets of MDF. 2 will go into making the jig base and float hull temp frames and the other 2 will be used to make the temp frames for the main hull. Until the main hull frames are needed I'll use them as a table :)

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by MartinDreaming » Sep 14th, '18, 14:08

rseydler wrote:This is on the grab later list
- 70mm OD aluminium tube (once I can find 70mm OD tube) for the prodder
You could try Brisbane Metal Market in Logan. I got my 40mm OD aluminium tube from there. They have other extrusions. Can't recall seeing 70mm OD tube on the shelf, though
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guzzis3
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by guzzis3 » Sep 14th, '18, 14:51

I would recommend buying marine grade aluminium.

Have you bought your epoxy yet ? I bought a 200 kg kit and will have leftovers. It's infusion resin so dearer than the usual stuff but very runny and nice to use. $12 kg for 3 parts resin 1 part hardener. I'm not exactly desperate to get rid of it, but if you are interested I'd be happy to help out.

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 14:57

MartinDreaming wrote:You could try Brisbane Metal Market in Logan.
Thanks Martin, will do. Funly enough I can find 50mm, 60mm, 80mm without issue. The only 70ish one I can find is 75mm. I've also emailed the designer as they are in QLD to see where they source theirs.

I'll contact Brisbane Metal shortly and see how we go.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 15:05

guzzis3 wrote:I would recommend buying marine grade aluminium.

Have you bought your epoxy yet ?
Yeh I am looking for something marine grade but as it is the prodder I can live with something else and paint it for now. The internal bit stuck under the deck is glass, this is just the tube that slides in an out. If all else fails I have some old mast sections (about 4!) that I can use, slightly oval but I can alter the internal tubing to take them easy enough. If you want the megwyn youtube vids they actually used an oval mast section for theirs.

Epoxy, yeh I'm good in that regards thanks. Got a 30l kit from Trojan (I would use local suppliers in Brisbane but they are all hellish expensive). Not sure if I will need more yet, I don't like having epoxy sit around as it settles and it's hard to mix up again if it is in vast quantities. The 30l containers you can pick up and shake/roll/store upside down to get them remixed. Then I decant into a smaller 3l kit so I can pour it easier. If you don't mix it, when you get to the end you get the settled solids and a pot that goes off in 10 seconds! Sometimes the solids actually become solid and you need to stick the container in hot water to get the solids to become liquids again, botecoat is notorious for this. Either way it's still better than polyester :)

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 17:11

Ray Kendrick (Scarab designer) suggests Alsun Aluminium for the 70mm tube so I will give them a call on Monday.

guzzis3
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by guzzis3 » Sep 14th, '18, 18:35

I got mine in 11 20 kg drums and 3 of hardener. I split it with a friend. And I forgot shipping so I actually paid about $12.75 kg or something...

Personally I wouldn't do business with boatcraft but that's me...

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Mojo
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by Mojo » Sep 14th, '18, 19:58

Sorry PM guys, It won't let me respond to the messages.
Hope you don't mind, but I'll stick my response here. I'm happy to delete it once you've read, so I don't screw up Ron's thread.

Jaime,
I'm still in the process of building a 550 so can't give you anything definite on how it sails. My 550 should be pretty stable. It has a wide waterline beam and bulb keel. I've got a 3yo, so hope it fits the purpose for family sailing.

The boat you are looking at there isn't a Colson design. It's an old skiff that has been heavily modified. It's a reasonably fast boat for its size, but i suspect needs a pretty active crew to keep it upright. They do a lot of racing around the Bay and are pretty competitive I believe.
It's a lot of boat for the money, but might not be that great for taking the little one out.

Townsville is a great spot for sailing. Having Magnetic Island so close is brilliant. I've done a lot of sailing up there.


Ron,
I used Jotun Penguard HB for the primer and Jotun Imperite 300 for topcoat.
I'm happy with it and would use it again.
I used a 2mm tip in a HVLP gun for the high build primer and 1.4mm tip in a HVLP gun for the topcoat.
You don't need a positive pressure mask to spray it, which is nice.

Cheers
Mojo

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 14th, '18, 20:04

Hey Mojo, all good mate leave it there. Sorry I dobbed you into Jamie, thought it was a Colson.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by Jaime » Sep 14th, '18, 20:26

Hey Mojo,

I like all the different ways you tried to reply. I had 9 pms from you :)

Cheers for the info.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
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Mojo
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by Mojo » Sep 14th, '18, 23:07

Ahh, whenever I hit send it tells me it didn't work.

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bachus
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by bachus » Sep 15th, '18, 08:31

Yup. Normal confirmation messages (and error messages ) are hosed.
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guzzis3
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by guzzis3 » Sep 15th, '18, 21:09

I have read positive account from a number of people using the jotun product. I was going to recommend it but forgot.

I get an error every time I send a PM and most times I post but they seem to get through. I am on my laptop and do not use tapa talk for this forum.

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 15th, '18, 21:15

Had a failure with the circular saw so didnt get the building frame done. I'll try and rectify the saw issue tomorrow. Since that was a no go i butt joined all the 6mm instead, that'll take a couple of days before it can be moved so feet up

Had a look at the norglass website, but it seems the jotun product has a good rep and is keenly priced too. Might be the go. Still a ways off though.

guzzis3
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by guzzis3 » Sep 15th, '18, 21:22

I have 2 7" and 1 9" circular saws you can borrow if you want. Also 2 jig saws and a power planer, ros etc.

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 15th, '18, 21:36

Thanks i had another offer for a loaner as well. I borrowed dads saw as it's the only tool i didn't have. I've never fought with a circular saw before and I've used them before without issue. This one pulls hard left and if you force it to follow the guide piece it cuts on an angle from top of piece to bottom. Never had a circular saw before that doesn't want to just cut straight.

Anyhow ill chat with dad in the morning, maybe he gave me a knackered one by mistake.

Ill just go and buy one as they come in handy. I can always use the twin cutter but it behaves like a huge angle grinder and leaning over a huge piece of MDF will ensure something wobbly as a result. Just need to split two pieces of MDF down the middle and it's 90% complete.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by Ukuri » Sep 16th, '18, 09:13

rseydler wrote:Thanks i had another offer for a loaner as well. I borrowed dads saw as it's the only tool i didn't have. I've never fought with a circular saw before and I've used them before without issue. This one pulls hard left and if you force it to follow the guide piece it cuts on an angle from top of piece to bottom. Never had a circular saw before that doesn't want to just cut straight.

Anyhow ill chat with dad in the morning, maybe he gave me a knackered one by mistake.

Ill just go and buy one as they come in handy. I can always use the twin cutter but it behaves like a huge angle grinder and leaning over a huge piece of MDF will ensure something wobbly as a result. Just need to split two pieces of MDF down the middle and it's 90% complete.
Ron,
It sounds like your saw blade may be "cupped or dished". This can happen if it has been allowed to get too hot because it's blunt or the clamp nut is the wrong one.
Easy to check by putting a straight edge (300mm Steel rule) across the diameter of the blade and "eye-balling" the gap under the rule. If not perfectly flat give it to your missus to do folk art on and buy a new blade. It can be fixed by hammering but not really economically on small blades.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 16th, '18, 09:50

Thanks Ukuri, just checked and the ruler touches the middle and the edge with light showing through in between the middle and each edge. Not much of a gap and i made sure i wasn't up on a tooth. I tried to get a photo but it doesn't show up at all. Also check it with my square just to make sure the ruler wasn't bent and same light show.

Bearings feel solid in the saw with minimal wobbling.

I'll take it back to dad and see what he says, I can swing past bunnies on the way home and collect whatever is needed.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 16th, '18, 15:16

Got back to dad's with the saw and my brother was visiting as well. He had a look at the saw and noticed the entire base plate was warped and a bracket at the rear was crushed which of course angled the blade..

you guessed it left...

So will acquire new saw during the week and all should go as planned.

Flipped all of the butt joined 6mm and filled the other side with fillet glue. The joint was very strong in both directions which was surprising as I flipped all of the now 5m long 6mm ply myself.

Marked out and cut the float temporary frames from the 16mm mdf off cut in prep for the frame being ready. I have not cut out the joints yet as I want them tight. I did cut near the line and will file out for a snug fit once the jig gets done.ImageImage

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by guzzis3 » Sep 16th, '18, 16:32

That's interesting. Ray Kendrick was the first person I saw use that egg crate setup for locating stations. Interesting he's still using it.

A piece of unsolicited advice, or thought anyway. Bunnings sell a structural adhesive called parfix. It's $2 a tube and made by selleys. It is a quick and cheap substitute for lightweight filler for fillets and gap filling. Some people have been using quality structural adhesive on internal joints and forgoing taping. Not the hull skin but things like bunks. If I deleted the tape I'd spend the extra and get high strength SA, but if you tape anyway I'd think the parfix is at least as strong as epoxy and filler and much less trouble. Probably cheaper also.

2c.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 16th, '18, 18:21

guzzis3 wrote:That's interesting. Ray Kendrick was the first person I saw use that egg crate setup for locating stations. Interesting he's still using it.
Having built a bunch of jigs before, if this works its going to be brilliant. So simple it's silly. The same jig accepts the main hull frames in the same locations as the floats so slot in one set or slot in another.

Thanks for the heads up on parfix, i'll google it tonite.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 19th, '18, 14:31

Picked up one of these over lunch.

Image

Managed to get a 1.5m long cut through a piece of 16mm MDF before lunch time ran out. It lacks a little power from a 240v model but it sliced through no problems with the as supplied blade (which doesn't feel sharp on the fingers).

Will try and get the other 2.4m long board split in half after work.

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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 20th, '18, 15:04

Got the MDF sheet split into two 610mm after work yesterday. Joined the extra length to make the frame. Now I just need to mark out and cut the slots for the temporary bulkheads and stand it up. That 16mm mdf is darn heavy, that frame isn't going anywhere by itself.

Remaining printed plans arrived today (even got a discount for being a good customer), check measured and all looks good. Looks like a fun weekend ahead to get as much cut out as I can to remove the 5m long stack of ply on the floor. Plan is to cut the float panels out first. I can cut both hulls at once and only need the 5 panels that make up the hull and I'll measure and cut the deck once assembled. Again I can cut out both float real bulkheads at once and that will give me heaps to glue during the week nights.

rseydler
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Re: New build Scarab 16

Post by rseydler » Sep 22nd, '18, 12:50

One of the good things about using the paper prints is you can nest better.

So instead of extra sheets as per the plans I can get the main float panels out of 1 5m length.

Pic shows float panels laid out for nest testing on the plywood with some temporary weights so they don't move as you walk around and adjust them. Image

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