Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

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guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 5th, '18, 12:16

impulse wrote:I assume you have been here.
Lewmar

Their catalogue lists type 1,2 & 3 NTR track up to 3m. It's the drilled plunger track which looks a similar profile but you'd need to check if the car off the kit is compatible. Download their catalogue for their full range.
I got one of those lewmar kits, it's nice but rope is extra. My rigger reckons he could do the parts for a selden track and traveller for a very similar price.
Maybe you should chuck a bit of work the way of a local rigger / builder and you may be able to take advantage of their prices. :wink:

PS. A mate has that Harken traveller that Zeb posted, the traveller rope to leeward automatically releases when you pull on the other side. Lovely bit of gear with a price that will bring tears to your eyes. :lol:
The link I provided was intended to lead specifically to the size 1 4:1 traveler kit. I will need to buy beams and getting all or part of the system from them is an option, but given australian suppliers seem to charge 50 - 60% more than overseas pricing including shipping it would have to be a decent deal. The lewmar kit comes with 1.5 meters of track which is useless to me. I can get teh car and ends at quite good prices overseas, about $500AU landed. I would then need track.

Is there a reason I would look at selden over lewmar ?

madmission:

I'm not sure I understand your post. It seems you are advising against a 4:1 purchase. My starting point is the designers advice and the gentleman who designed the boat has been doing little else but designing building and sailing catamarans since the early 80s. Mr Woods is in my opinion the best cat designer in the world. He suggests minimum 3:1 traveler and 6:1 main sheet. I thought for $20 more 4:1 might be nice.

I know nothing of racing and am prepared to believe I'm not a very good sailor. With 20 sqm of mainsail and a 3.2 meter boom I thought a bit more leverage would be nice if caught in a blow. I do not think I'd be interested in the complexity of the windward sheeting or multiple cleats. Probably it is more important to me to be able to release everything or haul in in a blow.

I was chatting to the gentleman at the nacra dealer, australian catamaran center I think they call themselves, about a very pretty harken 10:1 main sheet they offer. It featured a thicker tail spliced (I think, maybe it was desheathed or something now you mention it) to thinner line for the sheaves. Again I prefer to opt for simplicity, or perhaps the obvious. Besides....wait for it...I like big blocks and I can not lie... :D

Sorry dead tired atm, been doing battle with my subaru since 4 am...hot tired and unhappy. And full of unleaded fuel...

Zebedee: Your offer is appreciated, my response was not intended as a rebuttal of any sort. I apologise if it seemed so.

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zebedee
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 5th, '18, 12:35

guzzis3 wrote:Zebedee: Your offer is appreciated, my response was not intended as a rebuttal of any sort. I apologise if it seemed so.
No no, my message was that I understand I had been trying to teach grandma... !
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by pdandy » Jan 5th, '18, 12:58

guzzis3 wrote:
madmission:

I'm not sure I understand your post. It seems you are advising against a 4:1 purchase. My starting point is the designers advice and the gentleman who designed the boat has been doing little else but designing building and sailing catamarans since the early 80s. Mr Woods is in my opinion the best cat designer in the world. He suggests minimum 3:1 traveler and 6:1 main sheet. I thought for $20 more 4:1 might be nice.

.
It's funny how cat and monohull loads are different- for a 20 m2 main in a mono , we'd be using a 4:1 mainsheet system and 3;1 traveller to minimise all the extra weight /cost/ line hanging around trying to trip us up etc - but as you say, mr woods knows his stuff - and I imagine you can handle a lot more power from that 20 m sail in a cat before thinking about reefing (and tripping is less of a consideration on a nice big flat catamaran platform )

Are you going to be running a build blog etc ? Whilst I'm realistic that I could never have the skill / patience to build something like you intend, it's nice for us mere mortals to be able to watch and learn
noelex 25 green velvet

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madmission
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by madmission » Jan 5th, '18, 13:38

Good luck ..time will tell

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guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 5th, '18, 19:13

pdandy wrote:
It's funny how cat and monohull loads are different- for a 20 m2 main in a mono , we'd be using a 4:1 mainsheet system and 3;1 traveller to minimise all the extra weight /cost/ line hanging around trying to trip us up etc - but as you say, mr woods knows his stuff - and I imagine you can handle a lot more power from that 20 m sail in a cat before thinking about reefing (and tripping is less of a consideration on a nice big flat catamaran platform )

Are you going to be running a build blog etc ? Whilst I'm realistic that I could never have the skill / patience to build something like you intend, it's nice for us mere mortals to be able to watch and learn
Thank you for your interest. I had wanted to delay talking about it until I had something to actually say. If you look at my original post I was specifically asking about brand comparisons, not rigging options nor the boat.

I learned to sail on keel boats back in the 80's but I've been sailing cats so long monos always come as a shock. Skinny masts, strange main sheets, mid boom! Obviously a typical cat rig would look just as alien. I think a lot of the specs are because a mono will lay down in a gust while a cat absolutely won't. I think as you say that leads to very high loads. Imagine a 160x100 mast section on a 25' trailer sailer...!

Yes I intend to do a build blog, although the way my life is panning out at the moment it will be a year before I get started...

I hope to view and possibly buy a second hand mast and boom tomorrow. A gentleman from sandgate has one pretty much exactly the right size for a decent price.

I am desperately trying to get some things done so we can go on a holiday to tassie in february but of course the subaru has decided to have a dummy spit so I have multiple interrupt levels atm. Blessed bother...

Oh and just so I minimise my chances of success I've chosen a particularly complex boat to build AND I'm planning to do it with resin infusion. Should be... catastrophic... :) I will post a link to the blog once there is something to look at.

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by pdandy » Jan 5th, '18, 20:26

guzzis3 wrote:
I am desperately trying to get some things done so we can go on a holiday to tassie in february but of course the subaru has decided to have a dummy spit so I have multiple interrupt levels atm. Blessed bother...
.
Tas, Feb....the subaru is doing you a favour! This sounds like a job for a Guzzi !!!!!
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zebedee
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by zebedee » Jan 5th, '18, 20:55

At least you weren't in Queensland when your Subaru went on strike!
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guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 6th, '18, 09:44

We were in dorrigo over the christmas break. I'm not taking the subaru to tasmania. I've got to do some stuff to my AU ute as we use it as a camper. Nothing is ever that simple.

OT: I really really hate the subaru. It is true it's been reliable enough up until now but I happened to build a spreadsheet a year or so back and was properly shocked to discover the subaru has cost me as much each year as the falcon to run, despite the differences in rego and fuel economy. The forester is an awful car and the falcon is so comfortable spacious towes nicely. The subaru has incredibly bad paint, an electronic throttle that goes from annoying to dangerous and back again and the worst gearbox I've ever driven, at least on anything built since the early 60's.

Elizabeth like the subaru so she drives it, but I really wish I'd never bought the thing. $32k down the drain. Fords are deeply flawed cars but they have their good points and when things go wrong they are usually easy and cheap to put right. I think I'll stick to toyota in future...

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Wanton
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Wanton » Jan 6th, '18, 16:34

:thumbup: I love my Ford too.
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by AZAmagnum » Jan 7th, '18, 07:51

check the rope diameter that the modern blocks will take.
Ronstan recently reduced the line size of their headsail cars, due to the modern high strength ropes becoming thinner. Doesn't help when its cuts thru your hands ! there needs to be a balance sometimes.
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guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 7th, '18, 13:49

Yes, working load isn't the problem. According to the harken calculator my main sheet would have 550 kg at 30 knots. I don't even check load only rope capacity. It's all about comfort when you are helming for 10 hours straight...

Here is the "blog". Not much there yet.. bought the mast this morning. I may yet splash out on a new one but at $1000 and exactly the right size I thought I should have it just in case...

https://sangowizzercatamaran.blogspot.c ... nning.html

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Gezza
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Gezza » Jan 7th, '18, 14:31

https://www.whitworths.com.au/ronstan-r ... alf-finger
If you have to, but on a 10 hour passage it would just set the sheets
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by Pirate » Jan 12th, '18, 01:03

Ronstan / Harken / Lewmar ..... you make it sound like Holden V's ford ;)

After a few months of constant work I've fully refitted my RL24 with lots of shiny stainless steel parts, carbo odds and ends and lashings of spectra and dyneema, needless to say dropping a few hundred $$$ at the chandlers each visit became the norm (an addiction that has now benn cured ; ) )

During the onslaught of spending I soon realised that all the makes have their pluses and minus' so now my boat has a real mix of brands.

A few things I've learnt.....
Look for a load rating and know the load your going to put on it.... dont undercut a fittings limit just to save a few dollars, a replacement mast wont be anywhere near as cheap as the "savings" you make

Be prepared to ask the chandler for help in looking at options, he maybe bias to a brand or profit margin but he'll have knowledge of the various components.

Research the gear you want BEFORE you walk in the store, knowing your stuff beforehand is a huge advantage..... pricing was one of my 'things', knowing who charged what for the same item give good bargining power.

Checkout other peoples boats and their setups and ask where they are weak or strong, easy to use or frustratingly difficult.

&
Most likely you wont be solo sailing, so crew requirements must be part of the setting up process. ... pointless in fitting lots of different colored halyards and sheets if your crew is colorblind or labeling cleats in english when your crew is russian..... (speaks from experiance on that one :) )

Finally. ..... you said your capable of producing your own odd fittings to suit as I am and have done so... just remember that they may fail and your the only one that can supply a replacement
;)



Cheers
Kingy
Yar, & this ere post be done without a sin'le drop o' rum passin' me lips ..... maybe ;)
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guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 12th, '18, 17:18

I will be solo sailing most of the time. I don't like people. If I'm lucky a lady friend will occasionally accompany me.

I can fabricate stuff, but would prefer not to. It just baffles me how they can justify $500+ for a block!

The boat actually doesn't need much. I've got a lot of stuff laying around and enough of it is new...in fact I could do the whole boat out of the shed if I wasn't at all fussy. The main initial purchase will be the traveller setup and I'll probably chase up one of those lewmar cam on car 4:1 things.

Incidentally, since you mentioned colour coded sheets. I was thinking maybe I should put red sheets to port and green to starboard. Might make it easier to remember which rope I'm tugging...White aft and some other colours as you go forward. Hm...

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AndreyR
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by AndreyR » Jan 23rd, '18, 21:55

I have 24ft cat. I have 6:1 main sheet. 4:1 would not be enough.
"FIZZ" Simpson 7.3 catamaran

guzzis3
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by guzzis3 » Jan 24th, '18, 12:51

6:1 mainsheet 4:1 traveler.

We were discussing the traveler...

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AndreyR
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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by AndreyR » Jan 24th, '18, 21:17

I use 2:1 traveler
"FIZZ" Simpson 7.3 catamaran

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Re: Harken Lewmar Ronstan etc opinions

Post by huwp » Feb 9th, '18, 18:08

madmission wrote: While the VOR was in melbourne i was lucky enough to have a tour on board Mapfre
Mad, your right, these guys do stuff differently due to the nature of their boats and the way they have to sail them. They trim their backstays as well more than their travellers amongst other things, they carry apparent further forward and have a preferred heel angle as well, all of which would not work on some of the boats we are talking about here.

A bit like the initial question, things become horses for courses. You will probably find you will want a mixture of things depending on requirement. Many productions builds have OEM agreements with manufacturers so that's why you find a specific brand tending to be preferred on some boats.

In general, all the brands a reputable and have their own preferences. My advice, just check the specs.
Huw
Melbourne

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