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 Post subject: Seaway ingots and weight
PostPosted: Mar 22nd, '14, 09:40 
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I'm in the process of getting a heap of jobs done at the moment. Fitting new toys etc.

Anyways I had the cabin floorboards up to reveal the ballast. FWIW comparing my memory of pic's I vaguely remember of other Seaways to the number of ingots in TAT there seemed a lot more than in those pic's. I think they were of Volcano or Callisto. So I've gone through both threads and can't find the pic's. Can anyone point me to which page they are on?

Also can anyone else count or size their ingots?

I'll post some pic's when I get a chance.

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PostPosted: Mar 22nd, '14, 22:40 
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Hi Sam
I think Volcano was pretty much the standard ballast.
The ingots seem to be about 35kg each and there were always 8 around the centre case,
And then there were 5 aft of the centre case. In front of the centre case there were another 4 or 5, so that was a total of somewhere round 600kg in the hull. The keels had 90kg.
There was some variation from the factory, and owners kept fiddling with the ballast. For instance John Price in Sydney was making heavier keels for the Seaway, which made them better on windy Port Phillip Bay, and the heavy keeled boats seemed to win the Seaway Championships.

The Seaway hull seems to work best with its proper ballast. The Seaway 787 was mostly too tender as the trend was toward making boats light, and in the case of the Seaway that just doesn't work.

GeoffR


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PostPosted: Apr 14th, '14, 21:49 
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Finally got those pic's. The port and starboard are of course mirrored.

The pic's are unfortunately done with my cheapo phone and to make matters worse on the wrong setting... Hey they looked fine on the tiny little screen. You hopefully should be able to get the drift.

Geoff in your post you mentioned 5 aft of the case and I don't have any there. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you?


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ingots (768 x 1024).jpg [ 98.4 KiB | Viewed 2044 times ]
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fed ingots (832 x 624).jpg [ 66.12 KiB | Viewed 2044 times ]

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PostPosted: Apr 14th, '14, 22:13 
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I'm trying to count the ingots. Don't think it's right though as it would mean 900kgs :shock: :?

13x2=26 26x35=910


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ingots numbered.jpg
ingots numbered.jpg [ 101.13 KiB | Viewed 2042 times ]

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PostPosted: Apr 18th, '14, 07:10 
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I had the floor out of the Hotel recently so I could re-varnish it. Unfortunately I did not take any photos, but from memory I have only 4 big blocks of lead under the floor. The lead has been glassed over and flow coated the same colour as the rest of the interior so I am assuming Small Hotel is still setup in the original ballast configuration for a Mark 1. The keel is definitely no heavier than 120kgs.

Once or twice I have thought about transferring ballast from the hull to the keel. But I like the ease of only having to pull up the light weight keel. So I have made a final decision not to touch the ballast.
To be honest I have always it unusual that a boat with so little weight in the keel could sail so well. I guess Doug Peterson got his sums right.


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PostPosted: Apr 21st, '14, 13:25 
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Sam
I think those smaller Simsmetal ingots are only 20kgs each.
cheers
GeoffR


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PostPosted: Apr 21st, '14, 18:50 
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Hi Sam,

About ballast.

Those are not the original early model ingots. I just found this post, and I should have some pics of Volcano's original layout. Geoff can give you an idea of the dimensions as he's probably had them out. Volcano was supposed to have 544kg in the hull and 90kg in the bottom of the centreboard. She was incredibly stable and comfortable in all conditions with that.

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PostPosted: Apr 21st, '14, 19:03 
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Thanks for the info guys. My set all look original and she handles everything just fine.

The only thing that got me wondering was I have a vague memory of a photo from here or the old MSN site or Multiply I obviously can't remember where or who! But it looked different.

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PostPosted: Apr 23rd, '14, 08:22 
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After Stephenson Sailboats moved up to Queensland from Victoria, there were no more of the chunky 35kg ingots used. I assume that those were from a local metal recycler.

Time After Time was made after we bought the moulds from SS, and we bought the ingots from Simsmetal on the Gold Coast. ( I think they are 20kg but they may be 25.)
I'm sure those are the original ingots for that boat.

The wooden interior was crafted by Mike Harris. Nice job.
GeoffR


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PostPosted: Apr 24th, '14, 17:26 
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Quote:
To be honest I have always it unusual that a boat with so little weight in the keel could sail so well. I guess Doug Peterson got his sums right.

Ballast seems to be a very misunderstood subject and while it might be ideal for a 26 foot yacht to have two tons of lead hanging off a bulb at the end of an 8 foot dagger keel, there are other things to consider.

Many of us learned in Sabots, Gwens, Mirrors and V-Js or sailed plywood off the beach cats, like Arafura Cadets, Arrows and Quick-Cats.

We sailed in all sorts of conditions, often with crew and in atrocious conditions, with only 'live' ballast. If you look at history, there have been some amazing ocean journeys in small boats. Bligh traveled around 4,000 miles in an open boat 23 feet long, 6 foot 9 inches beam and less than 3 feet overall depth of the hull. That compares pretty well to our trailer sailers, and the only ballast was the crew and a limited amount of stores.

They went through some pretty wild seas. If I look at my RL24 sitting in the yard, I begin to wonder why I was bothering to think of adding ballast for cruising. My plan now is to just fit all the heavy stuff like batteries, water etc around the base of the compression post.

The Seaway 25 with around 550kg of lead in the hull feels more stable with a relatively light board, than my Cavalier 26 with a big heavy keel hanging off the bottom. So yes, Doug Peterson did a wonderful job with the numbers.

I just found the old pics of Volcano's lead, but the questions have pretty well been answered without them. The change of ingots would account for some differences.
Counting the ones I can see in Volcano it seems there was:
1 really big ingot aft of the centrecase
1 big ingot each side of the centrecase aft of the gusset
1 big ingot each side of the centrecase forward of the gusset
1 ingot forward of the centrecase.

That would suggest either 50kg ingots, or some combination to make about 50kg in each position.

I wonder if Geoff remembers what he took out of the hull?

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PostPosted: Apr 24th, '14, 18:54 
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To the best of my recollection we took 4 of the 35kg ingots out of Volcano aft of the centrecase.
Then we replaced the 90kg keel with a 300kg keel.
So the net gain in ballast is 70kg, but the centre of gravity has been lowered.
I hope we've made Volcano more seaworthy in a strong wind.
GeoffR


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PostPosted: Apr 24th, '14, 22:07 
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Volcano was excellent in heavy weather. I've often had her out in more than 35 knots and the worst that ever happened was things sometimes fell off the opposite side shelves. That was more because of the odd things I threw up there than any tenderness of the boat.

With Shepherd Moons I actually check the weather before I go out. If it is forecast over 20 I often wait it out.

With Volcano if 20 to 20 was forecast I would throw a small reef in the main and 4 turns on the genoa furler and head out anyway. The difference between the two even though they are the same size, is phenomenal.

I would have hated any extra ballast in the board, but then I suppose I already had an extra 300kg ballast low in the hull. 2 x 120Ah batteries, 100 litres of water, 80 litres of fuel, 2 spare anchors, 1 x spare 20mtrs 8mmm chain and 1 x 20mtrs 10mm chain, tools, 55 Amp 12V genset and tinned food for 3 months.. She was no lightweight cruiser while I lived on her :) That huge sail bin let me stack a heap of heavy stuff down low including about 50 litres of the fuel, and about 40 litres of the water fitted in front of the sail bin bulkhead between there and the back of what used to be the ice box/step.

Hmm. Now I'm beginning to realise why my other trailer sailers were so stable haha.

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PostPosted: Nov 24th, '17, 18:44 
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Pictures of the under floor Ballast on a Seaway 25


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Aft of centerboard  (2268 x 2268).jpg
Aft of centerboard (2268 x 2268).jpg [ 1.33 MiB | Viewed 316 times ]

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PostPosted: Dec 7th, '17, 09:18 
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Are you working on that boat Jeff? If so what issues are you intending to repair?


:lol: PS: I couldn't recognise the toes, but am assuming they belong to you. :lol: :lol:

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PostPosted: Dec 7th, '17, 15:17 
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The configuration weight wise is similar but in mine there are 20ish? lead ingots. Which is the same as another Seaway I know. Is that an older boat Jeff?

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PostPosted: Dec 7th, '17, 21:30 
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Wrong on all counts.. I just posted the pics for a Seaway owner.

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PostPosted: Dec 10th, '17, 10:03 
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Thanks for posting my photos Jeff they are intended to add to the discussion viewtopic.php?f=46&t=11221 they are of Goldbeater AKA Run Amok a Mk one. The issue is a small leak around the centre board case Cheers .

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Last edited by zebedee on Dec 10th, '17, 12:45, edited 1 time in total.
No change to this post; moved all 2017 posts to the end of the 2014 thread referenced here.


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