Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Area for Sunmaid, Sunbird, and derivaties to discus, store technical details etc.
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Tussock
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Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 17th, '14, 20:13

...so, how does one go about it? Kind of an oxymoron, I know, but anyone figured it out and care to share tricks, tips, techniques, potions, chants or spells that are particularly relevant for a Sunny?

Cheers,
Tussock
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Furstin
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Furstin » May 17th, '14, 21:08

On the trailer? :-)

They like a blow....

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Tussock
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 17th, '14, 21:18

(Original response deleted - this is a family website after all...)

Meanwhile, back on the water.... yes, they do seem to do better in stronger conditions...
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sailboatmike
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by sailboatmike » May 18th, '14, 01:49

They are designed as a JOG boat so should do well in conditions that others may well turn and run for cover in, really designed more like a scaled down offshore boat than a enclosed waters racer which some TS designers favored
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Tussock
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 19th, '14, 13:53

I'm thinking more in the line of... if you crank on the backstay and you have the babystay taught, you can point a few degrees higher. That's something that seems to help. I'm wondering what other tips are out there?
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by sailboatmike » May 19th, '14, 14:02

Get the weight forward, she likes to drag her bum, Im considering moving the battery under the Vee berth to get another 20 odd kilograms forward.
Cheers Mike
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Tussock
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 19th, '14, 14:12

I'd wondered about that... wasn't sure if that would help, or just load the bow down and make her hobby-horse. I think your Aussie Sunmaids have the water tank forward? Here, they're under the starboard quarterberth, which seems unhelpful. Mike, Have you tried yours with extra weight forward?
Last edited by Tussock on May 20th, '14, 17:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by sailboatmike » May 19th, '14, 15:01

No not tried it yet, I think the give away is that more than 3 people in the cockpit and you start getting wet feet as the water comes in the cockpit drains so obviously the bum is sitting down, if you put water in the water tank thats 40Kg extra your carrying around so it would help the stern sitting low but you are carrying extra weight so its catch 22
Cheers Mike
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Tussock
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 19th, '14, 15:46

I get water through the drains if I'm singlehanding! Might be too many pies (80kg). Interesting to see the lines drawings for our boats show the transom above the waterline. I think I read somewhere that the designer was rather casual in his calculations, so perhaps Sunnies don't have the volume in the stern that they should?
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Davidjohn
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Davidjohn » May 20th, '14, 14:17

Having once owned and sailed a Sunmaid, I will put in my two cents worth FWIW.
I consider them to be an excellent sea boat which has a bit of initial heel and then doesn't want to go any further in a hurry. My reason in the end for changing boats yet again back then was I'm 6 ft. and found sharing the vee berth a bit tight, the quarter berths were no good for me and I didn't (and still don't) like the "saloon" area in small boats being divided by the galley area!
Forward and aft trim is as important in the Sunmaid as it is in any boat, especially small ones such as we sail. Ideally, on any transom-sterned yacht, the water should leave the stern below the transom for good unbroken laminar flow as it leaves the hull; any water spilling up higher and around the "corner" between hull and transom creates drag, that lovely little chuckle of the wake leaving the stern needs to be as quiet as possible and the wake behind the boat needs to be as undisturbed as possible.
I think you're correct when you say that the stern of the boat doesn't seem "fat" enough which would add extra buoyancy but we have to remember these boats were designed to a "rule" 40 years ago to compete on a level playing field with similar craft also designed to that rule (JOG New Zealand style)
All we can do is follow the basic rules for all TS's when we want to get the best out of our boats - Don't overload them, and get their bums out of the water whilst maintaining the longest possible waterline length with the weight concentrated low down and amidships.
We often take photos of our boats lying to their moorings and they look great, the painted waterline sits level with the surface of the water, the mast slightly back from the perpendicular - fantastic! Now, what happens when we put 3 bloke in the cockpit?????

One often overlooked means of playing around with basic trim is to have a crew of three (or two if that's all you've got) and some sort of accurate speed measurement (GPS); Having chucked out all the gear you put in over last season that you never actually used, sail the boat on different angles to the winds with crew back in their normal cockpit positions, once you feel you are getting the best out the boat in its current trim, move a man forward to the foredeck - check your speed - is the boat going quicker?, how does the weight forward affect the tiller/helm? does that reduce or increase weather helm? What happen when he moves aft a bit? Did the weight forward lift the stern out of the water? By how much etc. Take notes and try the same thing on another course.
Once you have a rough idea of the weights involved in trimming the boat fore and aft, the next step is to see what can be moved around below to make this trimming more permanent. Where is the spare anchor stored? Possibly in a rear locker, maybe that's where the fenders could go with the anchor further forward. The only objects in the stern should probably be the outboard and a fuel tank. Is the outboard too big and heavy? Do we store heavy items tucked away up under the cockpit or some of our sailing /or sleeping gear back in the quarter berths next to the extra esky? Is the helmsperson one who likes to sit right aft in the corner for comfort or is he and the crew willing to cuddle up further forward with the helmsman using the tiller extension? Every little bit will help a little bit. Ideally a boat should carry the majority of its load in the mid section, where the boat is fattest - whilst keeping the narrower ends as free from excessive weight as possible (this is the main cause of hobby-horsing)
These are all things which become second nature to successful racing dinghy sailors, and those who then go on to sail larger boats take that knowledge with them and seem to be able to sail their boats better than many of us who have generally started out in heavier trailer sailers where those subtle adjustments to trim do not appear so obvious.
Good Luck and don't throw everything that weighs more than a few grams overboard in the quest for more speed; remember to factor in the comfort equation and take plenty of reds with you..... the barbeque....chairs for the beach, the umbrella, the chainsaw for the firewood.......

Cheers
David
Davidjohn
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Tussock
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tussock » May 20th, '14, 16:55

Huh. The idea of throwing crew onto the foredeck to check trim is an obvious idea once you've heard it suggested! Thanks David, that's certainly something to try next time I'm out. I've just stripped all the cruising gear out of her for winter (won't be overnighting on her now that frosts have started) so it's a good time to try crew shuffles.

Thanks!
Bryan
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Citrine Sunset
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Citrine Sunset » Feb 8th, '18, 00:32

Its funny when guys buy a pocket cruiser and want it to go like a Hobie 18 and throw everything out to get more speed lol If speed is that important to you I think buying a Hobie 18 the better option. Good trim is one thing and keeping realistic expectations of the outcome. I'll be impressed If I can take mine 10nm off shore in a fair sea at 5 kts

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zebedee
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by zebedee » Feb 8th, '18, 00:39

10nm is a long way, and if it's offshore then there's nothing much out there to see, unless you've found an island to visit. To be honest, I much prefer somewhere like the Lakes, with places to visit no more than a couple of hours apart (eg: Paynesville - Metung, I reckon on 90 minutes).
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Peter Yates
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Peter Yates » Feb 8th, '18, 09:22

zebedee wrote:10nm is a long way, and if it's offshore then there's nothing much out there to see, unless you've found an island to visit. To be honest, I much prefer somewhere like the Lakes, with places to visit no more than a couple of hours apart (eg: Paynesville - Metung, I reckon on 90 minutes).

Come on Zeb - you took about 90 minutes to do Paynesville to Duck Arm on one occasion. Admittedly you didn't have all the sails up! :)
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Citrine Sunset
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Citrine Sunset » Feb 8th, '18, 10:01

zebedee wrote:10nm is a long way, and if it's offshore then there's nothing much out there to see, unless you've found an island to visit. To be honest, I much prefer somewhere like the Lakes, with places to visit no more than a couple of hours apart (eg: Paynesville - Metung, I reckon on 90 minutes).

Im in Perth and Rottnest Island is 10nm off shore. So when you guys do coastal cruising how far offshore do you consider a safe distance ?

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zebedee
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by zebedee » Feb 8th, '18, 12:36

If I were in Perth, I'd probably sail to Rottnest. But in Victoria we really doesn't have anywhere comparable. Even Refuge Cove doesn't take you very far offshore.
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Citrine Sunset
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Citrine Sunset » Feb 20th, '18, 14:04

I took my Sunmaid out on Saturday for the first time to see how it went and the wind was 5-10kts but for the life of me I couldnt get her to tack. The headsail is a furling Genoa only just passes the mast and I couldnt get it to pass through the wind. Is this normal for a Genoa? I havent used one before & now im thinking im going to have to furl it in eveytime I want to tack.

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Tezza
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Re: Going fast on a Sunmaid...

Post by Tezza » Feb 20th, '18, 14:47

With 5/10 knots you should not have to much of a problem tacking with a Genoa. If it’s 0/3 and you have no forward momentum yep.
In light winds it is important though that you are at OPTIMUM speed before you tack.
What I do if close hauled is bear away a little to speed up , slacken the the Genoa sheet retaining a full sail then quickly tack pulling the main across and bearing away .the Genoa will start backwinding before I can let go the sheet and pull on the other . It helps to use your body weight to heel the boat over as well. (I sail solo).
I’m assuming you have adjusted the sheet blocks for the Genoa and your rigging is as it should.
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