Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

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sailboatmike
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Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by sailboatmike » Apr 8th, '14, 19:47

Looks like my good old Yamaha 8Hp is going to god, as the problems just keep coming and the price of the repair keeps heading North.

As much as i love that motor its time to cut my losses and buy a new one

So the question is when I replace it how many horses do I need, the 8Hp drove it along at hull speed at around 2/3 throttle into around 3 or 4 knts of current and a slight head wind.

I notice that Parsun have a 5.8Hp 2 stroke long shaft that is pretty cheap ($915) but its single cylinder, and Im not sure if will have the power to drive into a headwind and sea.

Once I go to 6Hp there is a dramatic price rise and weight rise (21Kg for the 5.8 and 27kg for the 6, 8 and 9.9), one would be silly to get a 6Hp ($1500) as the 9.8 is only $150 more and its the same weight (same motor I believe with different carby)

Any thoughts on what power rating? Is it worth spending the extra to go twin cylinder?
Cheers Mike
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zebedee
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by zebedee » Apr 8th, '14, 21:13

sailboatmike wrote:...how many horses do I need, the 8Hp drove it along at hull speed at around 2/3 throttle into around 3 or 4 knts of current and a slight head wind.
I've got a Honda BF5 (4 stroke single, 5hp, 27kg) on a Castle, which is a whisker bigger than the Sunmaid.

I wouldn't want anything heavier particularly if manhandling it off the transom regularly.
I wouldn't go smaller, but the 5hp has been quite sufficient. I would think 8hp would be overkill unless its the 8hp version of a common 6hp & 8hp design.
At under 30kg in a four stroke, you won't get a twin and I doubt you'll get past 6hp.

I don't like 2 strokes, but I accept that other people do not share my predjudices.
sailboatmike wrote:I notice that Parsun have a 5.8Hp 2 stroke long shaft that is pretty cheap ($915) but its single cylinder, and Im not sure if will have the power to drive into a headwind and sea.
5.8hp should be enough. I can't see much point in choosing a twin over a single.
sailboatmike wrote:Once I go to 6Hp there is a dramatic price rise and weight rise (21Kg for the 5.8 and 27kg for the 6, 8 and 9.9), one would be silly to get a 6Hp ($1500) as the 9.8 is only $150 more and its the same weight (same motor I believe with different carby)

Any thoughts on what power rating? Is it worth spending the extra to go twin cylinder?
That's the real question; $915 for a 21kg 5.8hp single or $1650 for a 27kg 9.9hp twin.

Do either of them have an alternator?
A man's boat is his Castle. The Gippsland Lakes are my moat. Castle 650 #10, Roller Coaster.

sailboatmike
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by sailboatmike » Apr 8th, '14, 21:58

No alternator, just stock standard outboard, best price for a reasonable brand I could find (thats if you consider Parsun reasonable), there is some Hungfu or similar brands for cheaper but Im not to sure about them and the support network.

In the Parsun the 6, 8 and 9.9 seem common motors (they all weigh the same 27Kg) and the cost difference in minimal
Cheers Mike
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Lofty
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by Lofty » Apr 8th, '14, 22:15

We were at the tinnie tackle 4wd boguns-on-tour-show on the weekend .. We asked aParsun dealer to sell us a motor for our S7 tender 3.5hp .. He refused to sell, and introduced us to the Tohatsu ealer .. He totally canned the Parsen for use over 6 months .. Surprised me as I've read ok reviews ..


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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by sailboatmike » Apr 8th, '14, 22:30

Im just going from the experience of my mate who has a 9.9 Parsun and thinks its wonderful, always seems to start first pull and never misses a beat.

Im always suspect of motors that dont get run much, motors need to run on a regular basis to last
Cheers Mike
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PaulS
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by PaulS » Apr 9th, '14, 11:25

That's the real question; $915 for a 21kg 5.8hp single or $1650 for a 27kg 9.9hp twin.
I bought a Mercury 15hp (badge engineered Tohatsu - same weight as 9.9) for $1750 new with 4l of oil, tank and lines.........
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by sailboatmike » Apr 9th, '14, 11:47

PaulS wrote:
That's the real question; $915 for a 21kg 5.8hp single or $1650 for a 27kg 9.9hp twin.
I bought a Mercury 15hp (badge engineered Tohatsu - same weight as 9.9) for $1750 new with 4l of oil, tank and lines.........
According to Mercury the 15Hp and 9.9 do weigh the same but at 35Kg are hardly light weights

http://www.mercurymarine.com.au/home/ou ... 99-hp.aspx
Cheers Mike
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by PaulS » Apr 9th, '14, 13:09

True! It is 8kg heavier but depends whether you have to move it off the transom regularly or you are a racing enthusiast and want the light weight I suppose. I have a Yamaha 5hp as well.

Paul
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by timfnz » Apr 9th, '14, 13:12

I had a 2 stroke twin 8hp (28kg), replaced with a single 5hp single tohatsu(21kg), and never looked back.

I get 6.2 knots at full throttle with my 20ft TS, and use a whole lot less fuel.
I've already had to rescue a 14 ft runabout motorboat, and my 5hp towed the dead motorboat upstream to the ramp no problem at all, still doing 4 knots.

Absolutely no point in going 9.9hp, for a 20-22ft TS where you have to lift up the motor every time you go sailing.

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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by Boatbeard » Jun 2nd, '14, 12:33

Any quality outboard run consistently close to it's rating but serviced correctly will last for thousands of hours. While the cheap Asian stuff is attractive initially, it probably will become problematic when the lower quality components and base materials start to dissolve in as little as a couple of years.

Nearly all outboards rot to death, only rarely are any used hard enough for wear rates to even become measurable.

Most issues come from stale fuel, neglect and corrosion. So a correctly propped 4 to 6 hp outboard - with long or extra-long shaft to get the prop deep will probably cover all requirements in normal conditions. Storm probably not - but then twice or more the power may not help much if conditions are horrendous... If you need to charge batteries you are pushed towards the bigger four-stroke models over 8 hp, and electric start bigger again.

As far as brand is concerned - go for the name brands, and most critically go for a reputable service shop that specifically deals with your chosen brand in your area. That is far more important than if you have a Suzuki, Yamaha, Honda, Merc etc. All the main brands will do really well as there are no bad outboards with them, only which features are most suited to your chosen function.

With smaller two strokes and four strokes, the total cost of ownership is well on the side of the two stroke for the first few years. I prefer four strokes, but two strokes don't offend me - and the weight advantage is pretty significant with the little stuff.
Shop locally! Unless you don't want local shops, or jobs for your kids, or something other than a multinational to go to in the years to come and be told what you are getting like it or lump it.

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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by sailboatmike » Jun 2nd, '14, 13:08

Well mine was a Yamaha before it decided that parts wanted to rot away, why they decided to use a steel part instead of stainless in a place that water would run beats me.

I dont believe for 1 minute that the brand name stuck on the side is any guarantee of quality above and beyond any other motor with a different sticker on the side, I remember when if it had a label "Made in Japan" people would shrug it off as just rubbish, now the Japanese are held up as icon of quality, our houses are all full of stuff that is made in Japan, soon the same will be said for Chinese imports.

Many items that were once made by good old American companies are now made in Japan, China, Mexico or wherever they can get the lowest labour cost, Fender Guitars are a classic example but at least they name theirs accordingly, with a Fender guitar not made in the USA having the Squire postfix
Cheers Mike
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by Boatbeard » Jun 2nd, '14, 13:52

Our good friends had a Yam 8 - it rotted in the same places as yours I expect. It too has gone to a better place now, and a modern Yam/Merc/Mariner 6 has taken it's place. Still gets the Austral 20 up to hull speed, uses less fuel, lighter. Starts first pull most times, owners in their late 70's.

The problem with the Chinese brands is still the quality of the bits and raw materials. They are often marketed as identical to the Yammie or whatever it is they rip-off - but things like cables will be half the size, connectors are made of cheap soft metals, crimping is indifferent, internal corrosion is immediate and ongoing - if you ever have to pull one down they look a lot older in the galleries and chambers, full of white fluff and verdigris... They are not the same. I am quite confident in the condition and quality of my 1996 Honda 15 - by crikey it's a heavy bugger. It goes ok and uses maybe a litre an hour - but it is significantly slower and less fun than the 15 OMC it replaced. Heaps quieter though.

Blue-water cruising yachties have remarked to me no matter where they fetched up in the world - in some very remote communities too, the local fleets are heavily Yamaha. Commercially I know of a 40 that was retired after clocking 10,000 hours. Sounds like a hat full of nuts and bolts, but starts every time and still goes quite hard on a recreational boat. I've used most brands over the last four decades, and can promise that if it has a piston it can give you grief, in fact I have blown up at least one of each.

Having said that, of course there is no reason the Chinese stuff will not in time become our main brands, of that I am absolutely certain - sooner rather than later too, but I am not convinced they are up there with the main brands, closer every year, just not there yet. When I was young Mercury were called black anchors, and had a bad reputation for corrosion due to black steel and porous alloy components - they were primarily fresh water designs and really didn't like salt... And Chrysler/Force were just rubbish. Wasn't just the Japanese stuff that was derided, and with good reason. Still think it is the service that is more important than the brand - if you have a local service shop for your chosen brand then that is far better than trying to deal with an issue and a mechanic/agent maybe hundreds of kilometres away.

It's not an absolute, but you will generally get what you pay for, and often barely that...
Shop locally! Unless you don't want local shops, or jobs for your kids, or something other than a multinational to go to in the years to come and be told what you are getting like it or lump it.

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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by farrijk » Jun 3rd, '14, 21:25

i have a farr 6000 and use to have a honda 9.8 4 stroke which worked well,but was very heavy and getting tired. i looked into all brands and decided on a tohatsu 6hp. 4 stroke sail pro,which is design for yachts, it has extra long shaft special pushing prop.and plug for battery charging
it works fantastic ,cost $1850 new
Rijk
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by zebedee » Jun 3rd, '14, 22:28

farrijk wrote:... tohatsu 6hp. 4 stroke sail pro,which is design for yachts, it has extra long shaft special pushing prop.and plug for battery charging it works fantastic ,cost $1850 new
Front gear shift, 26kg, 25", 5 Amps, optional internal tank, 4 stroke.
Hard to argue with that for $1850.
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by Citrine Sunset » Feb 8th, '18, 00:16

zebedee wrote:
sailboatmike wrote:...how many horses do I need, the 8Hp drove it along at hull speed at around 2/3 throttle into around 3 or 4 knts of current and a slight head wind.
I've got a Honda BF5 (4 stroke single, 5hp, 27kg) on a Castle, which is a whisker bigger than the Sunmaid.

I wouldn't want anything heavier particularly if manhandling it off the transom regularly.
I wouldn't go smaller, but the 5hp has been quite sufficient. I would think 8hp would be overkill unless its the 8hp version of a common 6hp & 8hp design.
At under 30kg in a four stroke, you won't get a twin and I doubt you'll get past 6hp.

I don't like 2 strokes, but I accept that other people do not share my predjudices.
sailboatmike wrote:I notice that Parsun have a 5.8Hp 2 stroke long shaft that is pretty cheap ($915) but its single cylinder, and Im not sure if will have the power to drive into a headwind and sea.
5.8hp should be enough. I can't see much point in choosing a twin over a single.
sailboatmike wrote:Once I go to 6Hp there is a dramatic price rise and weight rise (21Kg for the 5.8 and 27kg for the 6, 8 and 9.9), one would be silly to get a 6Hp ($1500) as the 9.8 is only $150 more and its the same weight (same motor I believe with different carby)

Any thoughts on what power rating? Is it worth spending the extra to go twin cylinder?
That's the real question; $915 for a 21kg 5.8hp single or $1650 for a 27kg 9.9hp twin.

Do either of them have an alternator?

Citrine Sunset
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Re: Sunmaid Outboard Hp - How much do I need

Post by Citrine Sunset » Feb 8th, '18, 10:29

The way I see it is you buy a good reliable motor for insurance. Id rather pay $2000 for a new motor than a cheapy! because knowing my luck I'll get caught with no wind, a 3 kt current and rocks approaching with an outboard that wont start yelling why didnt I buy a better outboard.

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